so again what was the date of this reversal? 1980 or 1981
new boy
JoinedPosts by new boy
-
13
Shunning revered?
by new boy inin 1974 the society had changed there stance on shunning dis-fellowshipping people.
they said you could have limited association with those who were dis-fellowshipped.. what year did they change it back to the old way of shunning people?
.
-
-
-
13
Shunning revered?
by new boy inin 1974 the society had changed there stance on shunning dis-fellowshipping people.
they said you could have limited association with those who were dis-fellowshipped.. what year did they change it back to the old way of shunning people?
.
-
-
new boy
So when exactly did they do the flip flop?.
-
13
Shunning revered?
by new boy inin 1974 the society had changed there stance on shunning dis-fellowshipping people.
they said you could have limited association with those who were dis-fellowshipped.. what year did they change it back to the old way of shunning people?
.
-
-
new boy
In 1974 the society had changed there stance on shunning dis-fellowshipping people. They said you could have limited association with those who were dis-fellowshipped.
What year did they change it back to the old way of shunning people?
-
7
Grounds for divorce and other questions
by new boy indoing research for my book.
since i no longer have any of of the watchtower bible and truck society publications.
1. was it true (and believe it was) that in the nineteen sixties that even if one of the marriage mates was a homosexual that this was not concerned grounds for divorce?.
-
-
new boy
Doing research for my book. Since I no longer have any of of the Watchtower Bible and truck society publications.
1. Was it true (and believe it was) that in the nineteen sixties that even if one of the marriage mates was a homosexual that this was not concerned grounds for divorce?
2.Was it or is it true that physical abuse can be grounds for divorce. If so are they allowed to get remarried?
-
10
Chapter 34 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower slave
by new boy inchapter 34.
“have another beer and forget the whole thing”.
i saw debbie stillman on tour in september 1972 standing there in the ink room.
-
-
new boy
At the time of his death the only thing Bob was doing that wasn’t in line with the society’s rules and regulations was smoking. He wasn’t living in sin or doing any other type of gross immorality. But because he left the organization back in 1958, he could no longer have association with his children or grandchildren.
Yet, my father who left the organization back in 1961 was still smoking also, at the time of Bob's death. He could still see his children and his grandchildren. Why? Because he got reinstated before he dropped out for good.
-
10
Chapter 34 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower slave
by new boy inchapter 34.
“have another beer and forget the whole thing”.
i saw debbie stillman on tour in september 1972 standing there in the ink room.
-
-
new boy
She was in shock of course.
But remember her religion could convince her to turn her back on her Father, her husband of 27 years and her own son too.
cool aid anyone?
-
10
Chapter 34 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower slave
by new boy inchapter 34.
“have another beer and forget the whole thing”.
i saw debbie stillman on tour in september 1972 standing there in the ink room.
-
-
new boy
Chapter 34
“Have another beer and forget the whole thing”
I saw Debbie Stillman on tour in September 1972 standing there in the ink room. It was love at first sight.
My strange Bethel courtship started with me trying to meet Mike Stillman's sister, Even though he worked in the ink room next to my elevator, we were not good friends, he was just a little to "country" for me and on the self-righteous side too. They say. "There is nothing more dangerous in combat then a new guy with a map!" Well, there was nothing more dangerous at Bethel then a self-righteous new boy.
Anyway one beautiful September Saturday morning, in 1972, we were walking to the factory, Mike happen to be walking with me, and he looked around and said. "God, I would give anything to get out of this city on a day like today." I said. "Well, I have a car and no place to go, you have a place to go and no car."
He wasn't quite sure of me, but next thing I knew, we were on our way to Rhode Island. It was him and me and four of his nerdy friends.
Needless to say, it was a great weekend. Debbie who had just turned 19 was happy that her brother finally brought someone home with him, who wasn't a complete hillbilly, like his other friends.
She lived in Newport Rhode Island with her mother, Elaine and step father, Ben Reagan. They had just moved to Rhode Island from Louisiana. One of the reasons was, they wouldn't make Ben an elder down there. So they moved to where the "need is greater" in the hope that Ben could finely get promoted. Plus they could be closer to their son, Mike. At the time Rhode Island had the worst ratio of Jehovah's Witnesses to normal people in the USA.
Ben Reagan was a real winner. He looked and acted just like "Gomer Pyle" only dumber. He would walk around and say things like "Your fat, I'm fat.....we’re all fat." Or he would say. "I know one thing about Debbie, she is tired." He would say that about 30 times a day. He would pat everyone on the head, like a small child. I'm not sure what that was all about? He was definitely three clams shy of a clam bake.
Of course a year later, they had made this mental giant an elder. I'll never forget the day I was sitting in the living room with him and he gets this phone call from some poor black sister that was in his congregation. She had been crying her eyes out because her worldly husband had just beat her up.
This is what Elder Ben said to her. "Well, you must have done something really wrong for him to get so mad. Just have another beer and forget the whole think.”
I just sat there, I couldn't believe it. This guy couldn't pour sand out of boot if the directions were written on the heel. Yet, this guy was leading the flock of God.
So, Holy Spirit is what puts these guys in power? After Bethel, I knew that was definitely wasn’t true.
Her mother Elaine, was another winner. She was as cold as ice and was a major hypochondriac. I think she was allergic to everything, including air. Naturally she was the one who brought the Jehovah’s Witnesses teachings into their family. Just like my crazy, hypochondriac mother brought the religion into our family. The crazy ones think it’s a great idea.
Debbie who loved her real father Bob, would get her face slapped anytime she would even said his name. Bob left her psycho bitch mother back in the 1950's and married another woman. He was of course dis-fellow shipped. It was his only way out of his nasty marriage.
Debbie and her brother had wrote Bob a letter, when they were just kids, saying they had no desire to see him ever again! That was their mother's idea of course, sweet woman that she was.
After we got married in 1974. We got some "New Light” at the Taunton dog track, district convention that summer. The society said, you could now have limited contact with dis-fellowshipped ones.
In September we decided to drive to California to see her real Dad. She hadn't seen him in over ten years.
Debbie was so excited to see her real Dad, who she loved so much. I found him to be a very sweet and kind person. Nothing like Debbie’s psycho mother. It was strange sitting in his living room showing him and his wife the pictures of our wedding. The wedding he wasn’t even invited to go to.
In 1976 he and his wife came to Rhode Island to see us. He had a great time together and it turned into a fun summer. In 1978 he came to Louisiana for a visit to see his first granddaughter Kelly.
All good things come to an end. A few years later, in 1979 "The light got brighter” once again. In 1979 the society said we are going back to the "old way" or the old light which was not the "new light" they got back in 1974. Yes, the "new light" would of course cancel out the old “new light” of dealing with dis-fellowshipped ones. We were all told we had to go back to the old way of dealing with dis-fellowshipped people by shunning them.
One day in the 1981, Bob called us up. He said he wanted to come up to Oregon for a visit, to see us and his only grand kids, my children.
I said. "Come on up Bob, we would love to see you!" Debbie grabbed the phone out of my hand and told him. "That he wasn't welcome now and that he couldn't come up to visit anymore." All because of the "new light."
Debbie who wouldn’t talk to him anymore, did send her father a subscription to the Watchtower and Awake magazines but for some odd reason the magazines didn’t replace the companionship and love he could have got from his family. Because a few years later one morning, we got the phone call.
Robert Stillman with no family to love him, blew his brains out with a 38 special. Yes one more casualty of the Watch Bible Bible and truck society.
”By their love you will know them.”
With over eighty thousand people getting dis-fellowshipped a year, how many thousands of lives has this cruel shunning policy taken?
The whole dis-fellowshipping and shunning policy was something Knorr dreamt up. March 1, 1951 we all got the new light on it. So the first of hundreds of thousands of people started to get dis-fellowshipped in 1952. It didn’t even exist in the first seventy five years of the organizations history. The word itself "dis-fellowship" doesn't even exist in the Bible.
That "new light" is funny stuff. Sometimes it gets brighter then dark again. Then bright again, but one thing that new light is never, it is never wrong!
Right?
-
7
Chapter 33 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower slave
by new boy inchapter 33. starving outside the load’s house.
there is no fanfare when you leave bethel.
they didn’t care about you while you were there so why would the care about you now you are leaving.
-
-
new boy
Chapter 33
Starving outside the load’s house
There is no fanfare when you leave bethel. Why should there be. They didn’t care about you while you were there so why would the care about you now you are leaving. In fact some thought you were nuts because you didn’t want to join their country club. So some took it personally and let you know how stupid you were to leave the lord’s house just a few months before 1975 was to arrive.
Someone buys a 3 dollar box of ice cream at lunch. The waiters cut it up into ten pieces for the whole table and you get a "good bye" card from everyone. Everyone at your table smiles and shakes your hand as if to say we were just kidding.
The tradition in the press room is they make a handmade card with some jokes about you in it and give it to you.
There is no thanks for the four years of your life. Just like in the prison movies the gates close behind you and you’re standing there by yourself.
There is no exit interview. So I gave myself one. I wanted answers. I wanted more, I wanted someone in a position of power to tell me something. Maybe even give me some hope again.
I did what I was told to do there. I worked hard and kept my mouth shut for the most part.
I had looked behind the curtain at the great and powerful OZ and was truly disappointed. There must be more, I thought maybe I missed something.
I decided I would see Bob Wallen, he was Knorr’s personal secretary at the time, and also the person in charge of all the missionaries around the world. He had been one of my table heads in the lower dining room. He seemed to be a humble person. I really liked Bob and his wife.
On my last day there I went to Bob and asked. "Bob what was this all about? I mean there are somethings going on here that are just not right!" He said. "I know what you mean. I look at these poor brothers in the bindery and I think that there but for the grace of God goes me. I want you to know, I have told the powers that be that we need to make a few changes here.” He motioned into Knorr’s office. “You, can help us by going back home and telling them how wonderful it is here!" "What?" I said. There is just a year left until 1975 and we really need the help here. So go back home and tell them how great it is here. Or if you can't say anything good about the place, please just don’t say anything at all."
Yes, tell the people about how wonderful it is here in god’s “spiritual paradise.” But please don’t tell people what’s behind the curtain.
Bob was just like all the rest there, who had invested their whole life in the dream, the illusion.
I think I got my answer. For the powers that be, the end justifies the means. Knorr once said. “I can replace any of you with just a twenty five cent postage stamp.” The individuals in the organization are expendable.
They say you only real power you have in life is personal boycott. I guess it was time for them spent another .25 cents and fine another new boy.
That is why few ex-Bethelities talk about Bethel. No one would believe it them if they did. I wouldn’t have.
Thirty days before I met with Bob, I had turned in my notice. Ester Lopez couldn’t wait to give me a dig. At one of my last lunches at Dixon’s table she had her chance.
I was wolfing down my lunch and looked up and caught her eye. She smiled and said. “You better eat everything on your plate because you are going to starve when you are on the outside.”
I didn’t say a word but I thought. I would rather starve to death on the outside of this place, then sit in here with you self-righteous assholes! They really thought they would get special treatment being at the headquarters when the shit hit the fan during the “Great tribulation” that was coming in just a few months.
Forty years later and still no “Great Tribulation and no Armageddon.”
Yes, the world did come to an end. The world ended for Knorr and Larson, Couch, Franz, Henshel, Suiter, Lang, Wallen, Wheelock and all the other Bethel heavies. Just like it had ended for Charles Russell in 1916 and for “Judge” Rutherford in 1943. Even Ester is gone but the organization is still there.
The day I left it was pouring rain. I really screwed up, I found out the night before, as I was packing things up, that I had way under estimated how much stuff I had. I had two large suit cases, that I could barely shut the lids on and a large army duffel bag. I would guess about 200 pounds of shit. My Van was in Rhode Island with the engine out of it. I was taking the bus to Rhode Island.
It was only four big blocks to the Subway station. It took me forty five minutes to get there. The longest forty five minutes of my life. It felt like the scene in "The Shawshank Redemption" when he crash out of sewer pipe in the rain.
I would carry or drag my belongings only about twenty to thirty feet at a time. I would have to stop. I would sit there on top of one of my suit cases, panting for air. I was drenched to the bone and mad as hell. How could I have been so stupid? After a few minutes, I would gather my strength and drag my shit another twenty to thirty feet.
As I was sitting on my suit cases in the rain, many people were walking by me and giving me strange looks. Most people are not surprised at anything they see in New York.
I sat there soaking wet, with everything I owned. I thought back to four years earlier, when I only had 140 dollars to my name after that first cab ride to Bethel. Now, I was leaving Bethel with one hundred and sixty bucks. Not bad after four years. I was leaving with a twenty dollar profit.
I missed my first bus to Rhode Island and had to wait four hours for the next bus. So I was pissed off at everything, Bethel, New York City, the subways and life in general.
There in the bus station I made two vows.
1. I would never work for anyone ever again. If I was going to work for a "Jerk" it might as well be me!
2. I would never be and elder or in a position of any "Over Sight" in the organization, the biggest thing I learned at Bethel was, that power corrupts people. I decided I would never sit in judgement of one of my follow brothers or sisters.
-
114
JW Stumper Questions - List You Best Here
by pale.emperor inhi guys.
sooner or later we're going to get a jw knocking on our door.
just like when we were jw's doing the knocking, it's good to have a question prepared to get them thinking about their own beliefs.
-
-
new boy
Here are some of the few examples of how your light has gotten “brighter” over the years.
On the resurrection of men of Sodom
1879- They will be resurrected
1952- They will not be resurrected. “The light got brighter?”
1965- They will be resurrected “The light got dimmer?”
1988- They will not be resurrected “The light got brighter” once again
About the separating of the "sheep and the goats"
1919- It will take place after the time of tribulation
1923- It is taking place now, before the tribulation. “The gets brighter?”
1995- It will take place after the time of tribulation. “The gets dimmer?”
Then you have the ‘Lord’ in Romans 10: 12-16
1903- 'Lord' refers to Jesus
1940- 'Lord’ refers to Jehovah
1978- 'Lord' refers to Jesus
1980- 'Lord' refers to Jehovah
So yes the "light gets brighter" but I guess God is on a dimmer switch sometimes! But who knows maybe it’s not god changing his mind about all this stuff. It’s just the confused church leaders, just like other religions!
I know all this “new light” stuff is pretty confusing. So just ask any Jehovah’s Witnesses about it. They won’t be able to explain it either.
-
1
Extra information for Chapter 27 50 years a Watchtower Slave
by new boy inmy friend jim pipkorn, worked at a funeral home in the lower east side of manhattan.
it was always fun visiting him at his place of employment.
one saturday afternoon, i went to his funeral home to pick him up to go to a movie.
-
-
new boy
My friend Jim Pipkorn, worked at a funeral home in the lower east side of Manhattan. It was always fun visiting him at his place of employment. One Saturday afternoon, I went to his funeral home to pick him up to go to a movie.
“He down stairs in the basement.” The owner told me. I looked down the stairs and shook my head no. “It’s OK.” He said, as he smiled. I really didn’t want to go down there. Jim must have heard us upstairs talking. “Keith come on down, here they won’t hurt you.” So I walked down the stairs.
As I expected there were dead people down there. Two guys in white aprons were hunched over an old dead man lying on a porcelain table. There were tubes and needles, blood pouring down the table into a waiting bucket. There was another old dead guy on an embalming table next to them. He was naked with a strange look on his face. This dead guy also had a sixteen ounce can of Rheingold beer seating in the middle of his chest. As the undertakers were working, the oldest one would reach over and take the can of beer off the dead guy’s chest and take a swig from it.
Another time I was at Jim’s funeral home. Jim was by himself in the basement and showed me a large refrigerator were they keep the dead people. He rolls open one of the drawers and rolls out a dead black pimp. The guy had been stabbed about twenty times. Than he rolled out a dead women in her twenties. There wasn’t a mark on her body. She was very pretty…what was left of her. She had no hands or head. They had been surgically removed.
“Why?” I asked Jim. “Because whoever killed her knew that if she could be identified, the killers could be caught. She had no birth marks or tattoos yet they still identified her. How do you think they did that?”
“I don’t know feet marks?”
“No such thing. She had an I.U.D. that had a serial number on it.”